Oral History Benchmark- Kiara

Abstract:

Bruce Grisham reflects back on his past experiences, how him being an African American male affected him from being able to do certain things, and also his point of view on racism and other similar topics, In this interview, Grisham talked about his past experience with segregation. He experienced segregation and discrimination when he was in the service. He talked about the things that he remembered from the civil rights movement. He also talked about how he believes that the education system was better back in the day then it is now, due to the fact that some of the students aren't taking their education serious like they should. Grisham also talked about the differences of how people were treated now and how they were treated back then. He thinks that everyone is still treated the same and that its just “camouflaged”, he believes that we really do not have “equal rights”.

Research:

One event that Grisham talked about is the bombing in Birmingham. On September 15, 1963 a bomb exploded before Sunday morning services at the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama. This church was a predominantly black and served as a meeting place for civil rights leaders. 16th Street Baptist Church was bombed by the KKK ( Ku Klux Klan). The Ku Klux Klan was a secret organization that was ran by white terrorist. The KKK was against blacks, jews, catholics, and the foreign-born. When the KKK bombed this church, they injured many and even killed 4 very young girls. The four girls names were Addie Mae Collins, Carole Robertson, Cynthia Wesley, and Denise McNair. When Grisham brought this event up in the interview, he didn't talk much about the topic. He said it was 3 girls who were killed in the bombing when it was actually 4.

Soures:

http://www.history.com/topics/black-history/birmingham-church-bombing

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/alabama-church-honors-4-girls-killed-1963-bombing-article-1.1457206

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16th_Street_Baptist_Church_bombing

KN- Hello, how are you?

BG- Oh great, how bout’ yourself?

KN-Im doing fine. I have a few questions to ask you about for my oral history interview.. is that okay?

BG- Yes.

KN -  Okay so, the first question is what's your earliest memory of segregation?

BG- Well my earliest recollection was when i was in the service. I probably even had it before then but it really hit me when i was in Plasby Mississippi (i wasn't sure of how to spell it). And I was in the end of that first phase of training and i was on my way to Germany. But i was gonna have a lead in the interroom. But i had to take a bus from umm Plasby Mississippi to Malone Alabama. And then from Malone Alabama to the airport, and so bc i didn't know exactly the schedules of the local transportation to get me there, i thought it will be wise to skip breakfast. So that i could be sure to get to Malone on time so how ever long it took for me to wait for the bus, ill just wait. But then i said i maybe needed to get something to eat right there in Malone. Well, i had a rude awaking. Here i was standing tall in uniform, and the restaurant refused to serve me. And i said, i said “lady i'm in uniform and you can't serve me breakfast?” She said “not so much as i can personally cant, its the establishment here.” They don't serve, you know colored people. She said “ I can take you in the back and serve you” but then  i said “ugh well its okay, thank you.” I picked up… well back in that time, there was a pack of ugh.. Ritz crackers for a nickel. So i picked up a pack of Ritz crackers for a nickel and put the nickel on the counter and then walked out. And thats when it really hit me of what segregation was all about. Because even though my family is of southern background, people in my generation on up, we were all born up north. We had no experiences of whatsoever about the south. But that was mine.

KN- Well okay, well the second question is how did you feel about segregation?

BG- How do i feel about segregation?

KN- Or how do you feel about segregation … like how did you feel back in the day and how do you feel now? (Both basically)

BG- Well.. Well, the more educated i became.. the more i resented it. And umm i don't feel it has been cured here in the United States. When i was in the service, i was better received by foreigners. Now they had prejudice there too for black people, even in foreign countries. Ill give you a typical example, when i was in Japan, I went into one of the ugh… let me see what did they call it.. Well basically one of the cafes, so you better understand what i am talking about. So when i walked in, (me coughing) one of the patriots walked out.. got up and walked out. And ugh… and so i turned around and i started to walk out to leave and the other patriots told me no no no don’t go. To make a long story short, they said he just.. he just thinks wrong. We want you here, we want you here. And ugh i said thank you, i appreciate it. And they served me, you know the beer.. they sat down and talked to me and everything. So its not only here in the United States believe me its all over the world. Its just more so in some places than others.

KN- Okay.. umm how old were you when the.. civil rights movement

started?

BG- I was in my 20’s. I dont know when it exactly started (laughter), but it started maybe when i was in elementary school. But the ugh real.. well not the real, but the civil rights movement more involved my generation.. like the late 50’s and the 60’s and all that.. See i was in my 20’s at that time and i was in the service, my political activities were very limited and restricted. To the best of my knowledge, the only real political activity that we could participate in is voting. Now we could vote but not take part of any outside political activity.

KN-  Umm what do you remember from the civil rights movement?

BG- What do i remember from it?

KN- Yeah, like what comes to the top of your head when you think of the civil rights movement.

BG- I remember MLK being assassinated, the young girls in ugh birmingham being bombed.. When they had the bombing in birmingham they killed the 3 ugh black girls (me coughing) and the ugh marching and all. When they had the march on washington..  they had marchings in Alabama as well and a whole lot of other places. I mean even though we weren't allowed to participate, we definitely could read. (laughter)

KN- Umm how was the education system for African Americans back in the day?

BG- (pause) Ill be honest. Do you want to know the honest answer to that?

KN- Yes.

BG- It was better than it is today.

KN- You think so?

BG- Yeah. from what i see today from the results of the students. Yeah, my buddies and i use to walk to school together. We use to say… we used to speak about how our offspring are gonna have a much better education than we did because.. (then what we were getting at the time) we were getting a much better education (cough) then our parents. And umm we said just imagine what it would be like for them! And it looks like it backwards.. its working backwards. I am really disgusted at the… at the.. the way the gangs that are proliferating. You would think ugh as it used to be, well they don't have the opportunity for education. I don't except that anymore. (me saying thats not an excuse anymore) No, no they have all kinds of.. the students now today have all kinds of opportunities for education, or to at least strive for an education (me agreeing) but some choose not to, see its a matter of choice and that ugh discourages me… well makes me very disappointed, ill put it that way. Because i was expecting so much more from ugh.. the generation after us. And it just looks like everything went backwards.

KN- How do you feel when people discriminate?

BG- How do i feel when people discriminate?

KN- Mmh.

BG-  I dont feel good, i feel hurt! And umm but once again you have to think about peoples background as well. Ill give you a case and point, when i was in the service. I met a lot of southern fellas, who came to me and actually admitted that they were taught to discriminate!

And some of them actually never seen (we were called colored) actually never seen a black man until they got on different means of transportation in order to come into the service. And so ugh its disheartening, and ugh its a crime chain that one human imposes such ugh demeaning characteristics on one human being. (me coughing) And yet and still they preached… well some of them, not all of them. Preached at so called christian way of living

and ugh it makes me you know, give situations like that some very serious thoughts...Very serious.

KN- (me getting the sentences mixed up) What’s the difference of how people were treated now and how they were treated back then?

BG- What's the difference?

KN- Yeah.

BG- Its still camouflage. Its still more protensus… And now some people might feel.. Well i don't think of it that way, rather they don't think of it that way. Well maybe for their present environment its not. I mean i have ugh ugh met caucasian people and people of other ethnicity and races and what have you. And gotten along with them very well..matter fact gotten along with them better than i do my own family. But that doesn't mean thats the way its gonna be in other parts of the world. So, you just can't put yourself in an enclosed environment and think that its alright. Thats not the reality of it.

KN-Did you ever experience any racism? If so how did it make you feel?

BG- We kinda expressed that earlier, didn't we? How i experienced racism and how did it make me feel? Well it made me feel hurt! Thats for sure, and it made me feel like i was dealing with an ignorant person. But ugh ugh, thats just something that you can not legislate. You can not legislate how they feel and their culture and how they think. Theres no law in the world that could cure that.

KN- Are you happy that we now have equal rights?

BG- (pause) I question that… our rights seemed to have improved. But ugh you see more black people on tv now than other. Now i don't know if its because president Obama has been elected as a black man.. Not as a black man because hes a black man. I do know that its a certain quotients that certain businesses have to maintain, that still exists.  And i myself had the chance to take advantage in that, in certain jobs that i had. They needed someone black at the time and i happen to fit the bill. Not so much because ugh… To make a long story short of other selective criteria. But they needed someone black and they thought i would workout fine. So therefore i was in that right place at the right time and thats how it was with a lot of people in my generation. See they don't actually ugh select you on your true moral character, its just that they need someone at that time to satisfy quota “fine if you dont, its still fine they’ll get another” (laughter)

KN- Umm did anything ever happen to you that changed your point of view about race and racism?

BG- Now what do you mean by change my point of view?

KN- Like say if  you thought about racism a different way before this situation happen.

BG- Oh. No. Because as i stated before, you can not legislate that and you can't ugh legislate people's upbringing. Because as long as its being taught, okay.. its gonna be perpetuated.

KN- I agree...How do you feel about other races?

BG-  (me coughing again) Fine. I believe in treating people as God meant for us to treat them. You suppose to love your neighbor. You can't love your neighbor if you hate your neighbor. You can't love your neighbor if your prejudice against your neighbor. (me saying i agree) Because i had the opportunity to work ugh ugh ugh… well fortunately over 8 ½ years, i spent better 6 ½ years overseas. So i was very fortunate to be able to get an excellent education as far as dealing with people and mixing with people.

KN- Okay umm do you believe that racism still exist today ?

BG- Definitely. It definitely exists. As long as people have the minds that they do to continue to teach it, to continue to have ugh hate groups.. well thats what i call them.. Hate groups and continue to instill in their children that they’re so superior and all. (me coughing) Its going to continue to exists.. there is no if’s, and’s or buts about it.

KN- Do you believe that racism is still one of the major problems that society has today?

BG- Definitely. It definitely is and its gonna continue to be a major problem.. Until people themselves change. Thats what its about. Once people themselves change as generations you know come about, hopefully that happens. Because it is a little better than when i came a long but ugh, its a very slow analyzing process.

KN- Okay, well thank you for your time. That was the last question.

BG- You’re Welcome.