Oral History Project

Transcript

Saturday May 10th, 2014

Grandfather’s apartment in Philadelphia

11:04am

GH: Okay...Its recording now.

GH: What was it like living as a young white male in the 1950s and 60s?

AP: There was a complete segregation between whites and people of color, minority people. LIved in different neighborhoods, went to different schools, completely separate. Because of that, people of color and people who were white didn't get to know each other

GH: Yeah

AP: All they got to know is, like what they call stereotypes, you know what that is?

GH: Yeah

AP: Okay. That’s all we got. And often, they were incorrect most often they were incorrect. I’ll give you an example: when I went to ehm high school it was 1942, I went to Central High School. You had to take a test to go there.

GH: Yeah

AP: And in my school, was all boys at the time, there were very few African American kids. There were no asians, and very few African American because of segregation.

GH: Yeah

AP: So it was not a healthy time, all I can tell you we did not know each other we just didn't know each other

GH: Okay. During that time what was one of you favorite activities? What did African Americans play like, how did African Americans play a role in it and if so what was the environment like?

AP: Gimme the question again please.

GH: What was your favorite pastime, and did African Americans play a role in it, and if so what was the environment like between the two?

AP:Ehm. My favorite pastimes doing a lot of drifting, daydreaming actually.  

GH: [laughs]

AP: And I've always loved to read, so I was reading a lot and listened to music alot, and the music I listened to was generally classical music and some pop. It was before the event of rock and roll so I didn't have any idea what rock and roll was like. And there was jazz, and that was introduced by African American people. Excellent jazz. [Restates] Excellent jazz. And even that I didn't know too well uhm, I didn't have friends who were African American so I didn't really get to know the music. The jazz. And jazz was very popular. And 1942 was uhm, a time of very bad-war in Europe so cause’, Europe the war started in 39, Germans uh we're going all over Europe, and the Japanese attacked pearl harbor in 1941 so we, when I was 18 actually, I went, was 18 and a half, I had one semester at Temple University. All the students were called up and we were put in the army. And by the way, in the army, in the barracks, no African Americans. There were none.

GH: Really?

AP: Really. As a matter of fact, this is such a eh, what's the word I want to use…  such a, I use bad because African Americans were not put in regular army units, they were segregated so they drove trucks they did labor work. And many of them had very special skills which would help, but they were put into these sort of non technical work.

GH: Yeah

AP: And in my barrack we had young men from Pennsylvania, North- different other places, but no African Americans.

GH: Did you ever see discrimination occur? If so, what happened?

AP: What dear?

GH: Discrimination, like openly happen.

AP: I'm ashamed to say in a way I did see discrimination occur. For instance, you went to a movie theatre, and there were no African Americans there. And there were people who were African Americans generally treated in a sort of a non human way, and many of the people who cleaned houses- African American women. So I had a woman who I got to know her, her name was Bertha came to clean my mother’s house. I used to try to- I felt [pauses] sorry for her, like she would have to carry the vacuum cleaner, I'd carry it up for her and down, I actually can't say I saw direct discrimination, but I would read about discrimination in the newspaper. There was obviously discrimination even though it was more in the South.

GH: Yeah

AP: In Philadelphia there was discrimination because African American people had to live in in associated neighborhoods. We can call them ghettos. And go to segregated schools

GH: Yeah. Did you agree with Civil Rights Movement’s protests?

AP: Very much, and I was- I read a lot. I would read every time there were people, there was a man named Stokely Carmichael, who was an early civil rights man and he, he… he first uttered the slogan “black is beautiful”, so African americans started to feel good about themselves and then there were the black panthers.

GH: Oh yeah

AP: And these were there was a lot of resentment for African American people, a lot of anger going on because there were so many things that were, that were harmful to do in your family and began to want to eh hurt people. Hurt white people, hurt anybody that discriminated against them. So there was a lot of riots in cities uh. African Americans would start fires, and go through wrecking buildings automobiles, and in Philadelphia there was a police commissioner named [Frank] Rizzo, who was extremely hostile, very hostile to African Americans. And police would hit em’ on the head that kind of thing where.

GH: Yeah

AP: And so in Philadelphia, it was a very bad time at that time.

GH: How were African Americans treated during your time as a teacher?..or counselor

AP: Well when I first started teaching, I taught in a school, there were no African American children. It was 1950.

GH:Yeah

AP: It was a school in Mayfair elementary Northeast Philadelphia. It was a brand new school. neighborhood, no African american. And I changed, I started teaching science at a junior high school in Kensington they were generally white people, who were living in poverty conditions, no African Americans. And because when people are in poverty, regardless of what your race is, you get, you get very angry. So there was anger at the African Americans because they were trying to upgrade themselves, and white people didn't know how to handle it at the time. It was just a very difficult time. So I had very little association with African Americans, but if I could jump ahead where I did have…

GH: That would be cool

AP: Yeah, where I did have well i graduated college, 1949, my first job was in a philadelphia uhm going to see people, people who were on what its called welfare.

GH: Yeah

AP: And I would visit elderly people things like that. And people who working at this time were African American. So I got to know them not only on a working person, but as a friend. So we began to associate together. And then we had parties together. And my friends would invite African American people. This was very new, but also very exciting cause’ we were bringing people together.

GH: Alright, thank you Ogg [what I refer to my grandfather as]

AP: IS THAT ALL?
GH: I think so. Yes.

AP: I hope I was helpful.

GH: YOU WERE VERY HELPFUL. Thank you very much.