Oral History (Dr. Michael Kelly)

Time Code

Subject

AUDIO

00:00

Interview with my Grandpa, Dr. Michael Kelly

EK: So, what was it like in school when you first started before the Civil Rights Movement?

MK: What was it like in school?

EK : Yeah.

MK: I think...when I was in public school, when I was young, I lived in a very white community. So my parents were liberal, So we, you know, we were comfortable with racial relationships. But the community as a whole is not, it just never came up...people...my classmates were never confronted with black people, or any ethnic people. And it was just, uh, sort of a non issue. uh, and uh that continued through high school...and then when I went away to college, of course, I went to NorthWestern and things were different. But I was raised away. I was comfortable. So, in my contact, there was no Civil Rights Movement. There was no issue of racial..problems because we didn’t have any real mix. So it certainly was a different world...after the sixties.

01:16

EK: So, after the Civil Rights Movement, did you like how schools were more diverse?

MK: Yeah. I always appreciated diversity, again, because of my parents. Uh, and uh, I think once I became more conscious of the problem, I must admit, as a public student...it just wasn’t conscious of the problem. You read about things in the south. This is an interesting incident. I think my first real awareness was during one of our summer rigs in high school. A friend of mine and I decided to go down to New Orleans. We were working in the summer, we had a couple of weeks off. And we took the bus down from Chicago to New Orleans, which was a pretty long trip. But the bus comes down from Chicago through Illinois and it crosses into Kentucky. Carol, Illinois into Paducah Kentucky. And when we arrived in the Paducah Kentucky, bus station, the driver came and rearranged the passengers, so that the black people moved to the back where they were “supposed to be.” And we had a break, and there was black drinking fountains and I think that was my first real awareness that things were different elsewhere. It was very uncomfortable for me. And I felt pretty good about the Civil Rights Movement happening and correcting some of those problems.

02:54

EK: Was your school segregated that you taught, and if so, did schools attended by the opposite race interact with yours and how did the students react?

MK: Over where I taught? Over at Glassboro?

EK: Yeah.

MK: Yes. it certainly was not segregated. We didn’t have a high percentage of  black students, but I’m not sure I have a percentage, uh, I would say, anyway 5%. And a few asians. Other minorities. A few hispanics. And it was completely comfortable in my awareness...uh...as far as interacting and the kids interacting with each other. Now I’m sure there were isolated incidents that I’ve never heard of, but in terms of my general feelings about how students behaved, and...it was a comfortable situation. I do remember Glassborough becoming very active in the Civil Rights protests. I remember there were places where they would take down the American flag and stomp on it, you know, reaction. there were a lot of kids that maybe took advantage and made more out of protesting than they really believed...Glassborough was, I think, very active in favoring and promoting Civil Rights Movement, and I never felt that racial inequality would factor it on our campus.

04:35

EK: Were there any books or speeches that changed your opinion about race and segregation?

MK: Well, I don’t, I don’t know that my opinions on race ever really needed to be changed outside of what I said before, becoming more aware of the problem. Uh, I guess Martin Luther King’s “I have a dream” speech is a key time in everybody’s background and relation of the Civil Rights Movement and realizing the power of a person like that and I think that the power of words, since I was a speech major and I have been always interested in the spoken word and use of language, I stood in awe of that speech by King and other civil rights leaders. That certainly strengthened my feelings about the need for civil rights action, and the need for promoting equality that didn’t exist everywhere. I can’t say my opinions changed, my awareness probably changed.5:

5:45

EK: Do you think schools today should be more diverse, for example, Philadelphia public schools?

MK: Do you mean in the sense of racial mix?

EK: Yeah

MK: I am not all that familiar how it is now, Eoin. Uh, I certainly believe in uh, racial mix, and it certainly seems with Russell Byers, I guess there were relatively few white students there, but I think racial mixing and equality is very important, and wherever it doesn’t exist, I guess there are movements to bus students from neighborhoods to schools that need more balance, I’m not quite aware of all of that. But I think it’s important that racial mixing occur, continue, and be improved if there are places in the school system where it is lacking.

6:41

EK: And, what do you think we can do to make them more diverse?

MK: To make the schools more diverse?

EK: Yeah.

MK: Well that’s a tough one. Uh… certainly um, and again, I am speaking out of basic ignorance of the school system as a whole, like I know your guy’s schools because we’ve been very acquainted with them and it doesn’t seem to be a problem in there. But, staffing certainly, the equality of staffing is important, racial equality and mix, um, making sure that if problems emerge, they aren’t put under the rug. If there are some kind of racial issues in a school, they have got to be dealt with directly and openly and uh, with meetings of students and assemblies and whatever is necessary to be sure that things don’t get out of hand. It’s hard for me to say anymore, because I just don’t know what is needed and how much of a problem still exists in the Philadelphia schools but certainly where there are problems, where kids feel cheated, because they are in a minority situation. Uh, they have got to be dealt with, they have got to be confronted by admins and not passed by.