Mukhtar Stones

5/18/15

History-Roy

Oral History Interview: Oreva Stones

Abstract:

For my Oral Interview project for African American History, I choose my grandmother Oreva Stones. What was most compelling about interviewing her was her belief that the system of America Are not doing anything about the problems that African Americans make and all people. She believed that the times had gotten better, but us as people are still having to go through the same problems and difficulties all over again. She connected her beliefs with racism in the workforce, education for blacks during her time,and even going to public places. Such as the Brown V. Board of Education case, part of that her Aunt on her father's side was apart of the case. Her Aunt had bad heart problems and it was hard for her to walk to the black schools which was farther than the white schools which was closer. She believes that all people should be treated equally no matter what and that we should change the system.

Research:

Part of the Brown V. Board of Education, the NAACP created the “separate but equal” doctrine as part of segregating blacks from whites in public school education in 1954. Even though this doctrine was made, the outcome wasn't as it was said to be, black neighborhood schools did not have good educational systems for black students, which made black parents angry to the point where they got the supreme court involved. The case was a part of several other cases, taking place in Kansas, South Carolina, Virginia, and Delaware. There were several black children through their legal representatives, went out to seek admission for public schools that required or permitted racial segregation.

Sources-

http://www.lawnix.com/cases/brown-board-education.html

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/supremecourt/rights/landmark_brown.html

Transcript:

Thursday, 4/30/15

Time 4:30 Grandmother's house

Interview questions:

M.S: Okay, so hello Nanna.

O.S: Hello Mukhtar, how are you today?

M.S: I'm feeling good. Can you give us your full name?

O.S: Oreva Stones

M.S: Oreva stones and you are the mother of my father jihad stones, and when were you born.

O.S: February the third, 1950

M.S: So, as part of your childhood, how did you experience the role of your race in society or other races?

O.S: Well I found out about slavery when I was seven cause my great grandmother was a slave, and I was very upset, very upset, but I didn't really experience racism until I went to Junior high school, because the junior high school I went to was majority white.

M.S: Oh!

O.S: And that's when I experienced racism.

M.S: So do you think the roles that races were set for have changed and are differently now?

O.S: Uh I don't know about differently I would say its more undercover now it ain't so straight outward like it was then, but basically its the same.

M.S: You still think it's the same?

O.S: Um, because we still haven to march and protest after the sixties. When we tore up our neighborhoods, and I was living on a block where they uhh.. In this neighborhood, where I accessorize all the people riding turning over buses, and breaking news stories. You know, and we... in 2015 have to do that again, so to me we had not really did anything. We didn't really move from those things. You know we're still being treated the same way.

M.S: Yeah um, and as a racial society we're stuck in the same place. We're not doing anything, and so when something happens you try to change it but it's not, we're not doing it right. Like what they're doing in Baltimore

O.S: I think now in my opinion is that they know the way um minorities are treated is wrong

M.S: Right

O.S: And instead of treating us right, they still want to go by the old laws and makes us do other kind of things to change the law, when its wrong, and they know it's wrong. They should just change the law without having us going through all changes they makes us make

M.S: Yeah I do see what your saying there.So what do you remember from and during the Civil Rights movements?

O.S: Um...well church of the advocate had black power convention and I believe it was sixty seven, sixty eight, and I lived down the street from there. So I experience uh... the movement I was involved in the movement. Umm the people were marching up and down the avenues with rifles and I witnessed all of that. A guy I was dating was in the national guard and the guys marching up the avenue with rifles, you know. People came all over from everywhere, Chicago, uhh I meet so many interest in people umm...it was...it really changed a lot for me.

M.S: Wow. So tell me how you experience racism in high school, but did you experience a lot of racial segregation, during the Jim Crow Laws?

O.S: No no, that was uhh.. before my time and more down south. It weren't so Jim Crow as we know separate bathrooms and and water fountains and all that, I didn't experience none of that.

M.S: Ohh, I do know that it was more, I mean in the south, but I do know it had some influence on the north, so I was wondering if like is there any occasions you were being segregated.

O.S: No not that way my my experience was was things we just knew we couldn't do because we were black, ya' know

M.S: Oh can you give me a few things.

O.S: Uh, lets see what I could give you well there wast that many people playing football or basketball or baseball or or things like that and ya' know there were no umm managers in the job situation or supervisors, none of that none of that were black when I was a little girl, ya' know by time I got out of high school and stuff they were just changing where they would let us get those positions at work. But where as before my job seniority when you got seniority you could move up, but when they start letting the black people moved up, instead of just moving up because of the seniority they would make us take test to get the position the same position the white people got we would have to take test in order to get those positions

M.S: Well it's somewhat like that now but not racially with sometimes getting jobs or getting into schools, so i think i think i know what you're saying there. Um how was the educational system back then and how do you think it's different now.

O.S: Umm... I think it's better now because you know my aunt your great aunt was in that brown vs the board of education  she was involved in that because my aunt had heart problems, and to walk to school was a hard on her because her heart so this is how she got involved in that because the white schools were closer to her and she could walk without the problem and she had to walk the way to get to black schools and that's how she got involved i have a jet magazine that they were in did i ever show that to you?

M.S: No but that's like interesting because we were just learning about that in school

O.S: Hahahaha!

M.S: Yeah so I... such a great coincidence.keep on going.

O.S: So my so my aunt was involved in that, so i do know a little about that but umm.. when I went to school umm the neighborhood schools were all black..

M.S: All black?

O.S: Mhm. And umm I went out to neighborhood to school which is how I ended up in a school that was majority white.

M.S: So that's somewhat like that now, majority of the neighborhood schools are black, now they have white students, and other racial groups, but mainly black and white. More black than white, so I see what your saying it has change, it has gotten better, which is which is good for the African American society more today.

O.S: Yeah because you had to go to the school in your neighborhood, now the kids can go to any school they wanna go to any school they qualify to go to.

M.S: SO when you were growing up what was it like to be a younger Black/African American girl?

O.S: I didn't have a problem growing up because the whole neighborhood were, ya' know everywhere I went it was majority black. You know what I mean, its only going to be black like in town or or um to the movies n stuff, and that's when i I saw racism because we would be in line and they would wait on the white people before they would wait on us and um they wouldn't want us to sit in seats that weren't that really good or comfortable, where they would give white people with better seats, seating arrangements and things like that. That wasn't until I got older, when I was a little girl I didn't really experience but when i started getting older and started going out of the neighborhood, going places where I saw that at.

M.S: At least its not like that now cause I would have a fit at least you get your own seat cause I would have a fit.

O.S: Yeah.

M.S: When you were growing up did you have black and white friends, white friends, or just black friends.

O.S: When I started junior high I started making white friends, up to that point I didn't have any white friends.

M.S: Oh okay, not even now.

O.S: Oh now I have white friends, but then I didn't, so I've learned to expect people for who they are not just uh she white or she Puerto Rican or ya know you learn to treat people quarter to how they treat you and that's how you get along with people.

M.S: Yeah that's how the world should work.

O.S: That's how the world should work.

M.S: Do you believe all people should have equal rights? No matter who they are?

O.S: No matter who they are.

M.S: Awesome! Have you ever encountered racism, from a police man, teacher, or a random person?

O.S: When I first started working, and this will be seventies after your dad was born, when I started working, at the Philadelphia gas works, that's when I saw really opened racism, umm me and my closest friend, my closest friend at the time was white her name was Debbie and we did almost everything together and she got a cold i got a cold, and when she went to our dispensary, they gave her more medicine or better medicine then they gave me, she would go and she would "Reeva go down to the dispensary, they give you so and so.", but they would never give me the same things that they gave her.

M.S: Oh did she even know that?

O.S: And this is this is like when I started working at the gas company in the 80s, no she didn't know that because i never mentioned it to her at the time but that's when i started um... getting notes and again when i started working at the gas company, because we were melting in the sixties and you would go up o different places and you would learn that people are people but when I started working at the gas company I.. i started getting militating again because there was so much open racism.

M.S: Oh!

O.S: Ya' Know I had to threaten my job with getting a lawyer in order to get the position i should of gotten because of my seniority but they wanted to give it to this white girl and they thought I would let it go and i wouldn't. When i first started working at the gas company i was really amazed at how they did to black people and the black people would say "Reeva this is how it is here" and I would say not for me, because it's not right and I'm not gonna let them treat me like that so i had to get back to being militant and fighting for what i deserve.

M.S: You gotta fight for whats right.

O.S: Yes, you gotta fight for whats right.

M.S: If you could be more involved in the Civil Rights movement how much involvement would you contribute?

O.S: If I could be more involved...

M.S: That's a tie.

Abstract

In this interview, my grandmother, Margaret Kelly remembers and speaks on her live living in Wilmington, Delaware. When asked about heritage and their views, my grandmother talks about never being encouraged to act differently or rude towards African Americans. My grandmother shares about attending schools together and what it felt like to view the protests but never had any bad interactions with African Americans. I believe this interview reveals a look into different types of people no matter what the skin color. When asked if she had any friends who were racist towards Blacks my grandmother responded that she did not surround herself with those kind of people.

My name is Madeline Kelly, today is May 2, 2015. It is about 6:30 pm, I am interviewing Margret Kelly born April 26, 1948 in Wilmington, Delaware. This interview takes place in Allamuchy, New Jersey.

MK: How would you describe your parents when it comes to new ideas and new situations?

MK: I believe that they were very open, I think it was a generation that uh-mm, there's people whose parents had gone through a rough time and a’ made it, and I think they were very optimistic as far as their future and the future of their children.

MK: And uhh directly towards the topic of African Americans coming into your community and coming into their lives when they were younger as well?

MK: I do not recall my parents having too much interaction with blacks in their era, as I went to school after 3rd grade we did have a interaction with black children. It was never a problem, my parents never told us anything but to respect them and to treat them as we would any other person we came across.

MK: So your parents haven’t told you any stories about them growing up around African Americans or any of their interactions with them?

MK: No, I don’t know they had much interaction with Negroes.

MK: What did your group of friends look like when you were younger?

MK: uh-mm, average middle class children, parents were working, you know the regular 9 to 5 job, we probably went out to play after school uh-mm…

MK: Were they White?

MK: Yes, they were all White, yes.

MK: Did your group of friends evolve in color as you grew older? Or did they primarily stay White?

MK: A lot of my group of friends stayed in contact after we started High school, I did meet a lot of black children, when I went into High school. I had never had any problems we got along well, we ate lunch together. We spoke, we really didn’t have any problems. Uh-mm.

MK: And what year is this?

MK: And this would be in the uh-mm, this would be in the 60’s. I started High School in 1962, and I graduated in 66 so all through that time we had you know, a relationship with African Americans who were in our classes and so forth and never had any problems, we always got along well together.

MK: Do you happen to remember your first interaction with an African American?

MK: (Pause) Yes, that would have been back in my Elementary school a’ in 3rd grade the school I was attending, was integrated.

MK: was this, this was a catholic school?

MK: This was a catholic school, and the small catholic church, not far from where I went closed. And these children started coming to our school, that was my first interaction was in 3rd grade with black children and never had a problem.

MK: How did you feel during the Civil Right’s movement? During a’ protests and any other type of movement that African Americans projected?

MK: I did have a sincere feeling for them, uh-mm it was probably a little hard for me to understand all the facts completely. But I realized these are people a lot of them I went to school with and I thought of that when I saw these protests I thought ‘I went to school with these people.’ And that they were good people, and that they felt maybe portrayed or, or ya know there was someone, like Martin Luther King who, who was assassinated and the reaction I could understand. Do I agree with it? No, because I don’t agree with violence, but I can understand where they were probably coming from.

MK: Do you feel a sense of closeness to the idea of feeling mistreated or misunderstood because of our heritage of being Irish?

MK: Yes I do, I think that every nationality that came to the United states went through a period of unacceptance, and had to sort of earn their way. The blacks I think were a little different because they were slaves and they were freed. Just a whole different evolve, evolvement of things where they evolved differently than other nationalities that came to this Country. And a’ I think it still goes on to even today a great degree.

MK: Do you remember where you were during the march on Washington?

MK: I was probably living at home, with my mother. My father had passed away at that point. uh-mm, I remember thinking about it saying ‘wow, ya know look at all this destruction and everything else.’ and it was kind of a’ new to you, you know when you’re experiencing something like this for the first time it’s like, wow. I don’t think I had a yes or no about it, just kind of you sat back and you saw it on TV and you just kinda’ watched it. I but you know it was hard to think that people that I knew that were black were actually doing these things, I couldn't believe they would be burning houses and turning cars over and stuff like that. uh-mm, but basically I can’t say, it was like a new experience, you didn’t know how to react to it.

MK: Right, so did you watch Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech on television?

MK: Yes I did.

MK: And how did the speech make you feel the first time you heard it?

MK: I was very moved by his speech, I wouldn’t say I cried but my eyes certainly filled up. I thought it was just, his sentiments were just absolutely beautiful and they really related to my christian beliefs and I felt that he was correct. These people should not be treated the way that they were, that they were equal to the rest of us and his dream is really the way it should be.

MK: And where you were growing up at the time, were there any movements in that area?

MK: There were some, nothing like there was in major cities. I lived in Wilmington, Delaware at the time, a Philadelphia at the time I feel was much more active as far as reacting to all this, but a’ Wilmington itself was not as severe no.

MK: Is there a certain event you can remember that happened during the movement that you may have saw on TV, that shocked you or…

MK: You know shocked, I don’t know if i could even use that term, when I watched some of these things on TV, it was like, almost in disbelief. That you just kind of looked at this and said ‘wow is this really happening?’

MK: Right

MK: You know, it a’ it didn’t hit, the actually, the reality of it actually I don’t think really sunk in. Now were speaking of someone who’s some 18 years old and who’s never experienced anything like this, and it just never really hit me, watching this, this a variety of what was really going on, I don’t think I completely understood it.

MK: Within Wilmington did you ever witness any African Americans being treated poorly or differently? At a restaurant, maybe getting your hair done, anything like that?

MK: No, no I was not

MK: You didn’t witness anything at all?

MK: No, nothing at all.

MK: So, within the school you attended, the Catholic Elementary School and the Catholic High School did you feel that any of the teachers had a different…

MK: Attitude or?

MK: Attitude towards the African American students? Can you remember any of them?

MK: No, I really can’t recall anything either in Elementary School which was Catholic, High School was public, so consequently there was probably more African American students attending there. But I don’t I dont recall feeling, of course I wasn’t a black person, but as far from a White persons standpoint feeling that they were treated differently no.

MK: Do you remember having any friends or friends of friends in your group that felt very racist towards African Americans.

MK: No, no I didn’t. But I think you kind of chose your friends based on the way you grew up and who you associated with and I think everybody that I met like that I don’t think I would have stayed with. I don’t think that was part of my upbringing and how I was taught.

MK: And  my last question is, how are your feelings today on the evolution of race and how people are treated today versus how you felt they were growing up?

MK: I still think we have a lot to improve on that is not totally gone uh-mm and not just in the black but in other areas too that people have to learn to accept and to recognize and I, I do think we still have some ground we need to cover on it, most definitely. Things have not changed that greatly.

Research

When my grandmother was talking about Wilmington, Delaware it sounded peaceful and a very warm place. I decided to look deeper into what my grandmother was saying, maybe there was something she had missed. When I looked up Wilmington, Delaware the first thing that stood out was a site that read “Murder Town (a.k.a Wilmington, Delaware.) I thought, this could not be the same place my grandmother grew up in as a child. “Wilmington once again ranked third on the FBI's annual list of most violent cities among cities of comparable size. Wilmington also ranked fifth when compared to all cities with populations greater than 50,000, up from eighth in 2012.” I’ve decided to look deeper into when things took a change for the worse. In my research I found an event that my grandmother did not mention in our interview. “Before any concrete steps could be taken to implement the grand development plan, events intruded on Wilmington as it became part of a tragic national story. The riots that followed the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King in the Spring of 1968 hit Wilmington’s West Center City the hardest, leaving buildings and homes smoldering. The downtown business district received a severe scare but little direct damage. The most damaging aspects were the psychological scars left in its wake and the dramatic overreaction of Delaware’s Governor, Charles Terry. A downstater and former judge, Terry believed an insurrection was underway and kept Delaware National Guard troops on patrol in downtown Wilmington for 9 months, long after the violence had subsided. This became the longest military occupation of an American city since the Civil War. Businesses joined the white flight to the suburbs in ever- greater numbers.” I find this to be an important event in Wilmington, whites took flight after this event which caused the great decline in population. My grandmother moved away from  Wilmington to be with my Grandfather, she never mentioned an event that actually caused a great number of Whites to leave.

During the interview on April 29,2015. My grandmother and I spoke on the topic of her childhood and how she really never seen or experienced racism. The audio first started off with the few questions I had as it went on she spoke on how she didn't care for racism because race didn't play a big part in her life. She witnessed a lot horrible things but only in the south, she never backed down when there was a problem with race.  She also talked about how she lived  in majority white / Jewish neighborhood. Her best friend was white she went to a school name Stokley which is no longer existence but she did attend Benedict College that’s when she started to see the racism existed. As an young adult she helped in her community with the Strawberry Mansion Civic.

Research

Promoting place- Strawberry Mansion neighborhood and environs... Pride of place and connecting opportunities ... "building bridges". In this document I found for the planes of ‘The strawberry Mansion Neighborhood Association “ it gave what they were about and why they did it. The Strawberry Mansion neighborhood was the first area to receive neighborhood planning support and to complete the planning process through the issuance of this document. The planning process has involved the residents of Strawberry Mansion and community input has been a key component in this process. Several community meetings were held with area residents at Strawberry Mansion High School where citizen comments were documented. Informational reports and presentations were also given at these meetings in order to facilitate discussion and ideas to support the plan.

Abstract

In my interview with my grandfather on May 11, 2015 at 6:23pm, he talked about a place called the Black Bottom in West Philadelphia. When he was around 8 years old he moved from 60th & Callowhill to 38th & Fairmount ave. My grandfather said he moved down their because his mother and father broke up and she didn’t have any money to stay where they were at first so they moved down to the Black Bottom where it was predominantly African Americans which is the reason why it’s called the Black Bottom.

Research

In the source I found it tells where the Black Bottom is and what it is. The Black Bottom was a part of the city in West Philadelphia. It was referred to as Area 3 but is now known as University City. In the source it says “The Black Bottom was framed by 33rd and 40th Streets on the east and west, and Lancaster / Powelton and Curie Boulevard (University Avenue) on the north and south. The Black Bottom received its name from its location at the “bottom” of West Philadelphia.” In another article I read it talked about the wealthier white people lived towards the top of West Philly.  Both sources below are for the same topic of the Black Bottom.

Sources:

http://philadelphianeighborhoods.com/2012/12/04/powelton-village-university-expansion-destroys-a-community/

https://theblackbottom.wordpress.com/communities/blackbottom/history/

Transcript

Grandpa Interview- James Johnson & Egypt Bracey (May 11, 2015 @6:23pm)

Background About My Grandpa:  My grandfather was born and raised in West Philadelphia in 1939. He lived on 44th and Fairmount Ave which is called “Down the Bottom.” He learned to drive at the age of 14. He had one brother who went into the Army and later died. AT a young age he had various jobs and later became a chef working at many restaurants. In 1968 he met my grandmother and they got married and had two children. He still lives in West Philly with his wife, children and grandchildren.

EB: Hi I’m Egypt

JJ: Hi I’m James Johnson grandfather to Egypt Nixon.

EB: Okay I’m just gonna ask you 10 questions about your childhood and segregation, discrimination when you were younger.

JJ: Ok.

EB: Okay umm, how was your life during segregation?

JJ: Well it was pretty rough. I live about 44th and Fairmount Ave and I was born in raised in Philadelphia. So it wasn’t to much segregation where I was at.

EB: Okay. Was the school you went to segregated

JJ: Umm… No

EB: Ok. Did you ever experience any discrimination while you were in school or were you ever bullied?

JJ: Yes I was bullied.

EB: Can you tell me more about that?

JJ: Ok well yes because I was bullied because I was by myself i guess. I went to school by myself because I was the only child, well not the only child but I was the only young child from my mother and I went to school and all that and I guess I was bullied more because most of the kids were darker than me and I was lighter. And actually my grandparents, my grandmother was white and grandfather was Indian. Ok and I was really born and raised 60th and Callowhill, I was born and raised up here, and actually when I was living up here on to the age of eight it was really integrated. But it was only three black families on the block. On the five city blocks of 60th and Callowhill on down to 60th and Haverford on over to 60th and Market.
EB: Were you ever disrespected by anybody white?

JJ: Yes

EB: Okay umm, do you have any personal experiences with discrimination or racism?

JJ: No, not really.

EB: Do you remember being friends with any white kids?

JJ: umm, yes. They kids I went to school with when I was living up here on 60th street there was a boy named Louis Brogen, he was white and umm, there was white families on both sides of me. On 60th street there was  white families that lived on 60th street on both sides of my house.

EB: Ok. Was the neighborhood you lived in mostly blacks or whites.?

JJ: Mostly white when I was younger and as I got older we moved from mixed neighborhood to the thing that was called the Black Bottom down 37th and Fairmount and that was mostly black. My mother and father had broke up, so my mother didn’t have and wasn’t earning enough to live up here so we moved down to the Black Bottom.
EB: Were you ever bullied in school about your skin color?

JJ: Yes.

EB: Can you tell me more about that?

JJ: Well I was mostly lighter than the rest of the kids, most of the kids were dark skin and I was brown skin.

EB: How is your life different now than when you were a child?

JJ: Well it’s great now. Its altogether different than when I was a child. I have a good life now, good life.

EB: Were you ever apart of any Black Movements such as the Black Panthers?

JJ: No.

EB: Okay Well thank you for letting me interview you.

JJ: Ok

Abstract

In my grandmother’s interview on May 11, 2015 at 6:10pm, she discussed that she moved up to the North from North Carolina in 1966 during the Great Migration. She was born in Washington, NC and grew up in a predominantly black community. The stores weren’t good to shop at and her mother and father couldn’t really make a living down there. When my grandma turned 23 she was searching for a job so that she can support her mother. So she moved Philadelphia to search for a job, she then started a career as a nurse at the University of Pennsylvania hospital and made a living in Philadelphia.  

Research

Abstract:

On In my interview with my great uncle and former Marine James Jones jr, we first discussed his life in the Marines and what his experiences were with racism and segregation. He briefly talked about his childhood life living in New York City and Philadelphia and how it differed when traveling between the North and South. As an African American male he was definitely put to the test as he faced physical and mental hardships by whites. Towards the end of the interview I was pleased to hear that our views on race in America today, and our views on how African American children today take opportunities for granted were so similar.

Research:

When condoning my own research about segregation and inequality for blacks in the North and South, I found that my uncles interpretation about how life was for blacks was pretty accurate. There was no such thing as land of the free even though slavery had ended. Even though blacks didn’t necessarily have physical shackles and chains around their ankles and necks, but they did have on mental chains and shackles. Racial Inequality took place of slavery. Even after the Civil War the inequality between races continued in the South but they tried to cover it up with this whole idea about being separate but equal. There were even laws made known as Jim Crow Laws, which made it obligatory for things like schools, hospitals, restaurants and public transport to be racially segregated, or which banned marriages between people of different races. As the years have gone by since then, it seems as if things have died down but now with fresh cases like the Brown case and the Trayvon Martin case both sides are starting to get rowed up again.

Sources:

http://www.getting-in.com/guide/history-gcse-revision-53/

https://prezi.com/wl6zibafokhp/racism-against-black-people-in-the-1950s-and-60s/

http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/freedom/1865-1917/essays/segregation.htm

Abstract

On May 9, 2015 at 6:30 pm, Daina Haughton and her grand-aunt Louise Allen talk about Jamaica in the 1960s. Daina and Louise talk about where Louise was born, what she did for fun as child, how many siblings she has and more. The interview has more of Louise’s life than what Jamaica was like in the 60s but it does offer an important event which happened in Jamaica.

Research

Haile Selassie visited Jamaica on Thursday April 21,1966. About 100,000 Rastafari was at the Palisadoes Airport awaiting the man who they thought of as a god. Awaiting his arrival, they smoked marijuana and played drums. When he arrived and stood on the steps of the airplane, the crowd beat calabash drums, lit firecrackers, waved signs and sounded Abeng horns. The crowd pressed past security and was on the red carpet they laid out for him. He returned inside the plane and after a few minutes sent for one of the Rasta leaders. He told him to tell the crowd to be calm. He told the crowd to step back and let the Emperor land. The leader escorted Selassie to his limousine. Selassie did not walk on the red carpet.

Selassie’s visit had an impact on a few lives in Jamaica. Bob Marley’s wife, Rita Marley, converted to Rastafari faith after seeing Haile Selassie. In her book and in interviews, she says she saw a stigma on Selassie’s hand and was instantly convinced of his divinity.

His visit had a great impact on the Rastafari religion. They gained respectability from outsiders for the first time. By making Rasta more acceptable, it opened doors for the commercialization of reggae, which lead to more global spread of Rastafari.

Sources

http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2014/02/haile-selassie-in-jamaica

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grounation_Day

Transcript

DH: What is your name?

LA: Louise Allen.

DH: When and where were you born?

LA: February 22nd 1947 , Westmoreland, Jamaica.

DH:How many brothers and sisters do you have?

LA: 8 brothers, 7 sisters.

DH: What do you remember about your parents?

LA: They were, they always worked very hard and provide for us, very supportive, kind and gentle.

DH: What  did you do for fun as a child?

LA: Play a lot a games and I use to crochet a lot.

DH: What big world events were the most memorable while you were growing up?

LA: When Queen Elizabeth and Haile Selassie visited Jamaica in 1966.

DH: What was it like growing up in Jamaica in the 60s?

LA: …. Growing up in the sixties was good although there are a lot of changes over the years.

DH: What was it like before Jamaica gained independence?

LA: Before Jamaica gained independence everything, laws had to be ratified in England by the Queen and signed.

DH: Was this good or bad ?

LA: It was good to a point and umm , well at least it had its advantages and disadvantages.

DH:What was it like after Jamaica gained independence?

LA:That was good for Jamaica because everything was done there and they didn’t have to depend on England for everything although they still had to get some laws ratified there.

DH: What was the education in Jamaica like in the 60s?

LA: Education in the 60s umm were good because we have to study very hard because without, without studying and ahh the education you couldn’t get into college. You had to have pass like a GCE and JSC.

DH: What is GCE and JSC?

LA: GCE is uhh General Certificate of Education, JSC is Jamaica School of Certificate.

DH: What, when did you move to America?

LA: In the late 70s

DH: What was it like when you got here?

LA: I had, it was a little difficult at first because I had to adapt to a lot of changes, which I did adapt very well.

DH: How was race understood in Jamaica?

LA: In Jamaica race was like, there was hardly any racial problem because since the population basically is, mostly black.

DH: How does it compare to the US?

LA: Much, there is a big difference because america is like people from all different parts of the world are here, different nationalities, so that makes a big difference and with so many people, over 300 million people live here.

DH: How has that changed over time if it has changed?

LA: Things have changed but still there are a lot of racial issues to be dealt with.

Abstract:

Ed Gillen reflects and talks about his views on race and the Civil Rights. He was in transportation for the military shortly after the Korean War ended, for 3 years. He talks about where he lived and how he grew up in an ethnic neighborhood. Where the only biases were between different European ethnic groups like Italians, and the Irish. He ends the discussion on his view of the recent events dealing with police officers killing unarmed black men, and how that can be connected to race.

Research:

The Korean War began in June 25,1950 and ended in July of 1953. Casualties reached up to the 5 millions by the end of the war. Unlike WWII and the Vietnam War, the Korean War got little media attention in the U.S. The most popular representation of the war is the TV series “M*A*S*H.”   The U.S. dropped the first atomic bomb ever only 5 years earlier in Japan. Once the Korean War started, many assumed that an atomic weapon would be used in the conflict. 

Sources:

www.mentalfloss.com

www.history.com/topics/korean-war   

YouTube: The Cold War: Crash Courses U.S. History #37 

Transcript:

Interview with ED GILLEN

MAY 9 2015

E: I'm just gonna start with just asking you when you were born and stuff like that. Then we'll start getting into like, the meat of it. So... whats your name?

P: Ed Gillen

E: When were you born?

P: November 2, 1935. I'm not thinking I'm just talking.

E: Ha ha. So my first question is, do you actually know what the Civil Rights Movement was?

P: I remember a lot of them, yeah.

E: Where were you at the time, around 1960? When it was really starting to become a topic of discussion?

P: 1960.... Many years ago..I was 35, married, two children.. I think I was living in ah..Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

E: Lancaster, Pennsylvania?

P: Yeah.

E: Were you in the country or were you serving?

P: Uh, I was out of the service at that time.

E: Um..what did you actually do while in the service?

P: OK, I graduated college in 1958. Went into the air force for 3 years and in that time I spent about a year in Korea and uh spent a lot of time in Japan, because I was in transportation.

E: So you weren't in any of the fighting or anything?

P: No. No it was pretty much over by then, the Korean War was over..

E: OK... So I know that, at least to my knowledge, like back in that time there was a lot of segregation...What was your perspective on race, just like then? Were you cool with segregation or were you like, you know we should treat everyone equally?

P: Well being up north, I wasn't really around it at all. And uhh yeah, I went to a public high school and we lived in ethnic neighborhoods back then. It was like the Polish neighborhoods, the Irish neighborhoods, the Italian, Hispanic, and there didn't seem to be a black neighborhood around at all. (So you weren't really around segregation?) No but the public schools had all the kids from all the races and there never seemed to be any problem or I would think of, you know, no one seemed to be against each other.

E: So it was like everyone was the same?

P: Yeah, it seemed to be.

E: So you didn't grow up with, aw this race is bad, and stuff like that? (No) Did you ever feel like any of that stuff ever affected you, or were you completely isolated?

P: I was isolated from it, or just it just never came up.

E: It was like everyone is the same. Cool, so have you ever been in the south, during that time? Did you ever see segregation?  

P: Well, I remember when during college, we use to go for spring break, down to Miami. (Yeah) And so there would be four or five guys that would pile onto a car. drive down there and when we would drive through Georgia to get to Florida, we would past a lot of the segregated parts. We would stop off at a gas station, we would be seeing signs like uh, colored water fountain. That kind of things.

E: Seeing that, did it ever bother you or did you not pay any mind to it?

P: ...I didn't pay any mind to it.

E: Alright, how did you feel towards the civil rights, were you for it, were you against it, or were you just neutral?

P: I'm just like today, very neutral about..everything. Ha ha ha. I don't make raise and I don't even watch the news anymore, I just wanna keep my head in the sand, kinda thing. Just uhh let everybody get by in the world.

E: You were in pretty neutral territory all throughout your life.

P: Yeah, I never....That was way before any kind of agitation on college campuses, for anything like the Vietnam War and things like that. I was basically out of all that. When i went to college you had to wear a shirt and tie and a suit jacket. The seniors, they would wear hats because they were ready to get a job.

E: You were in service, but you weren't in the fighting, at all.

P: When I was in the Air National Guard, the Atlantic City Air National Guard I was there for about 4 years. And I liked that because it was one weekend a month in Atlantic City, and I enjoyed that. But then what happened when the "Pueblo" got captured president Johnson activated the Atlantic City Air National Guard. And uh activated our unit, and I went to Korea another year. Ha ha ha ha. I went to a Korea air base, lived in tents and.. just like Mash. We were very similar to a Mash unit. Lived in tents, worked in tents, except that they were the ones during the war. We were just there during, just to be there. We were the tac-fighter squad but we had no airplanes to support. They took the airplanes and sent them to Vietnam. They sent 25 pilots, and they sent men to school, learning to fly another aircraft. An then the 900 work troops, which I was one of those went to a Korea air base just to sit there, in case war broke out. we would be there in place, and they would send us airplanes to support.

E: They had you ready.

P: They had us ready, then after a year they deactivated the Air National Guard. And then I left the Air National Guard, I didn't want to re-up again.

E: Now I know that, I forget exactly, but you got in your truck and just went all over America.

P: Yeah, that was when I retired.

E: What year was it?

P: 1969...no wait take it back. Ha ha... I was 69 when it happened, so it was 10 years ago.

E: So like 2005?

P: Yes, 2005.

E: OK that's too soon, we need to go back some more. OK so I know that you lived in Germany for awhile.

P: I spent two years in Germany, my wife and I. (This was before..) This was just before I retired, I was about 62 or 63 and uh they moved uh I had a problem of moving our plant to Mexico. And then we closed up the plant in Pennsylvania. And I didn't want to go to Mexico or Gastonia, North Carolina, where we had a plant. SO uh they said, why don't you go to our parent company in Germany for 2 years, and work on a computer system they were installing a SAP, which is a German software manufacturer. So I sent two years and I came back, after two years and just hung around for a while, then retired.

E: So, um do you think that the way you grew up, like your childhood, just made you not have any bias against any race?

P: Back then the biases that I saw there the Polish against the Italians and the Italians against the Irish. It was Pre-Hispanic, it was all the European ethnic groups and they really didn't get along.

E: Yeah, so that's really the only bias you saw?

P: All our fighting was between (each other).

E: So you never saw like whites against blacks?

P: No, there weren't any blacks around cus we lived in ethnic neighborhoods. Elisabeth, New Jersey had Peter's Town which was Italian, Curry Head which was Irish and The Port which was Polish and uh some other groups in here ha ha ha. Yeah it was European bias or bigotry, European bigotry.

E: So you never got to see the full scale of what was going on.

P: No, it just never seemed to be that way.

E: With the stuff happening in the South, and MLK, did you ever hear about it and..?

P: Well you would read about it in the papers, but it was so far from us up here in Pennsylvania..

E: You never even felt like you were affected by it.

P: Exactly right. It's like now a days the way the media is, something happens in Afghanistan or some country you never heard of, Crackistan or something like that it makes the news. Back then I just never payed attention to it one way or the other.

E: Yeah, now uh....you're white, you're Caucasian, do you feel like just over all, and when you were traveling, have you ever felt like you had a stereotype placed on you, by another race?

P: No nope, never never...No matter where I went, Tokyo, Korea, anywhere I never felt out of place.

E: You got raised right. You didn't have to go through any of that. (I didn't have to, no.) You got it easy.

P: Well back then, I think, white people had no difficulties accept if you were in the Irish or the Italian neighborhood. You gotta watch (haha) cus there were small gangs back then. But the gangs were not violent gangs, it was more talk and then two guys would fight.

E: It was only like fist fights, because nowadays someone will pull out a gun and kill someone.

P: No that never happened.

E: Now with the, I don't know if you heard about it, but the stuff that happened in Ferguson and Baltimore right now, with the guy getting killed because of spinal injuries while under custody, and how a lot of people are linking that to race and every thing (Well it probably was.) Do you feel (I'm sure it was.)...you sure?

P: Yes, I'm sure it was, well you know there is no doubt in my mind that a black person with white cops, although some of them where different races too I think, I think the Mayor is gonna charge 6 policemen with murder. Yeah, and I think the mentality of cops isn't quite right to anybody. I think, you know the other one with the guy was running down the way and the cop shot him. (The was the thing in Ferguson) Yeah, there's been a lot of things like that.

E: Do you feel like we're just downgrading from what we've accomplished back in the day, when it was really serious, like when there was a lot of segregation? Do you think we're going back to that?

P: Well I think almost every ethnic group had fight to get ahead. Like when the Irish were digging the Erie Canal, I mean they were the lowest of the low, I mean they were lower than the Chinese. Cus they just thought the Irish people drank and uhh that was it. (Drank and fought.) So the Irish eventually became cops and I think they took it out on people who they thought were lower status.

E: That's actually just what I was about to ask you. Cus like with stuff happening now, do you think that cops back in the day had a similar thing?

P: Well look at ancient history, there was always some group beaten up on another group.

E: Yeah, well mostly it would be a group of authority too. Like a guard beating on the poor.

P: The ones who had the power were the ones beaten up on the ones without the power. There's no doubt about that.

E: Do you think that that's just always how it is throughout history.

P: Yeah, and uh given time the circumstances change, it'll be a different group if you know what I mean. (Yeah) During the war it was the Japaneses. You know what they did to them in California, they put them in concentration camps just because they thought that they still had allegiance to Japan.   

E: Well I think this concludes it.

P: Yeah ha ha good luck.

E: Yeah thank you. Well thank you for letting me interview you and all that.